CouveCast
Welcome to the City of Vancouver Washington's official podcast. Each episode is a mix of city insights, stories, behind the scenes and some fun along the way. Real talk with people shaping Vancouver's future.
CouveCast
CouveCast episode 14 Old Apple Tree
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If you haven't yet, you will want to check out the Old Apple Tree in Vancouver. It's the 200th anniversary! In this episode we hear from Jessica George, Urban Forestry Outreach Coordinator and Lauren Danner, writer, historian and Urban Forestry Commissioner. Some great stories, little known facts and of course the annual Old Apple Tree Festival!
Welcome to CouveCast, the City of Vancouver's official podcast, hosted by Steve Harris. Each episode is a mix of city insights, stories, behind the scenes, and hopefully a few laughs along the way. No jargon, just real talk with the people shaping Vancouver's future, one episode at a time.
SpeakerWelcome to CouveCast, the City of Vancouver's official podcast. I'm your host, Steve Harris. Today we will be talking with Jessica George, Urban Forestry Outreach Coordinator, and Lauren Danner, writer, historian, and urban forestry commissioner. They are here to talk about a staple here in Vancouver, the old apple tree. Thank you both for joining me.
Speaker 3Thanks. Thanks for having us.
SpeakerSo first off, where is the old apple tree and how old is it?
Speaker 3The old apple tree is down at the historic Fort Vancouver. It is in an interesting location. It's right across from Who Song and Larry's underneath uh railroad tunnel. Okay. It's at Old Apple Tree Park, so the address is 112 Columbia Way. Um accessible by foot or pedestrian access only.
SpeakerYeah. And um and there's a romanticized story about the tree. What's what's that about?
Speaker 3There is. So the tree is 200 years old this year. Um and so uh it's quite old, especially for a fruit tree. Usually they are not going to be living that long.
SpeakerStill giving fruit.
Speaker 3Still giving fruit uh abundance this year as well. Um and so it knowing that it was planted in 1826, that's when um the Hudson's Bay Company was active in this area. Okay. And so what we do know is that it was brought over um by uh uh soldiers that were coming to uh be participating in Hudson's Bay Company. Okay. The romantic story is that there was a fancy dinner and the enlisted folks were or enlisted, what would it be called?
Speaker 2Yeah, the the clerks and the people hired by the Hudson's Bay Company to come over.
Speaker 3Yeah, and that there was a dinner and that uh a woman admirer put these apple seeds from a dessert into um this man's pocket and said, plant these when you get to the new world. So a very romanticized idea of uh bringing apples over. Lauren has been doing a lot of research into actually why and how apple seeds came over, but these in particular as well.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Yeah, there's not um I think that we the old apple tree is really special, and I don't want to take anything away from that. Sure. But bringing fruit trees to the so-called new world, which was only new to white immigrants, okay, um, is not that new. Uh the first apple tree was actually bought in the 1600s on the Mayflower, the appleseeds, and planted in Virginia, and it sort of has spread across the country from then. Um so this this the tree that we have down at Old Apple tree Park was probably the original tree was planted in 1826.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2Um, from seeds. I do think they were brought from England by a Hudson's Bay Company employee. But I think that um the romantic version of the story is just that. I think that what's much more likely is that the person who brought the seeds over, who we think is a ship captain named Emilia Simpson, um, was he was hired by the Hudson's Bay Company to come over and specifically to entrench the Hudson's Bay Company in um their fur trade in the Northwest Coast. So, really, this is about cementing the British position in the Pacific Northwest, as opposed to like, I'm just gonna bring seeds and plant them, and won't that be lovely? It it does, it didn't really work like that. They wanted to establish Hudson's Bay Company as an agricultural center. And so these seeds would have been a very um welcome and natural gift to bring to the Hudson's Bay Company that was established. And it's probably worth pointing out, too, that we think of the Hudson's Bay Company as like this nice fort with the picket fences and everything. And when Amelia Simpson arrived here in 1826, um, in November of 1826, um, there were no buildings to speak of. They were up on the bluff. There were maybe some lean-tos and tents. It was full of mud and rain, and so um they think that they had sort of a shed for a store, for a company store, and that was it. So apparently the seeds were maybe planted in a box and then moved down to the current fort position.
SpeakerAnd little did they know how things would come to fruition here in the city of Vancouver. What kind of apples are we talking about here?
Speaker 3Uh so the apple variety that we have known, it's um uh we've called it an English greening apple because we did not know what it was called. Um in 2019, we were able to partner with uh National Park Service and WSU on a larger apple genome project, a worldwide apple genome project. Okay. So we sent in some DNA samples, so some cuttings of the tree.
SpeakerOh, okay, very good.
Speaker 3Yeah, to WSU, and they put it into their testing system, and it came back that um this is a distinct variety of apple. Um, its most closely known relative, thought to be grandparent or great-grandparent of this tree, is the French rayonet apple. And the French rayonet apple is considered like the grandmother of all apples, of all heirloom apples that we know. So it's its own unique variety of apple, and so uh we got to name it uh with our partners at Fort Vancouver, and so it's now known as the Fort Vancouver apple.
SpeakerWe need to sample one of these apples. I'm not sure if it's apply. Yeah.
Speaker 2They're better baked or cooked though, just FYI. They're not not really a good idea.
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 2No, and I think probably it's it's fair to say that most apples in that time were used um to in pr to cooking from served in some way.
SpeakerEspecially at that time.
Speaker 3Or making hard cider. Yeah. Sorry, definitely.
SpeakerLittle pressing going on there. Yeah.
Speaker 3For sure.
SpeakerNow, didn't this tree die at one point? Am I correct in saying that?
Speaker 3Yeah, it sure did.
SpeakerAnd it but it came back in the miracle of life.
Speaker 3Yeah. In 2010, um, we started to recognize that there was a spiral crack in the trunk of the tree on one side of the trunk of the tree. Okay. Um we were able to work with our partners in National Park Service, local arborists, and the city forester um to identify what was going on and then just manage the tree. Um it's a biological living organism, so as it lives, it dies. Um and so it was slowly starting to fail over the next 10 years or so. As it was, the trunk system was starting to die back. Uh, it sent up a lot of root suckers, about eight or 12 root suckers that weren't eaten ripped by the rabbits. Um, and so we were able to nurture those. And then in 2010, the tree um switched position enough, the trunk of the tree switched position enough that it cut off the uh cambium and it died. Okay. The top of the tree died. Um the root suckers are from the original root system. So it's the original tree. We just have a new top to the tree.
SpeakerOh, I see.
Speaker 3Yeah. So we transplanted um all but one of the root suckers up to the Fort Vancouver Historic Orchard, and we kept one, and that is now the old apple tree. Okay. It's just a different top that we see. It's the same exact root system.
SpeakerSo there was still some life beneath. It's just at the top, it was going away. Correct. Gotcha. I also understand that uh the original plans for SR 14 were uh shifted a bit. Talk about that.
Speaker 3Yeah. When uh SR 14, which was a needed transportation through fair, as we as we still recognize. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SpeakerHuge uh vessel right now for for the city. Yep.
Speaker 3Absolutely. Uh the initial plans were just to uh flyway was to go right over what is the old apple tree and old apple tree park. Um as the community started to recognize these plans as they were going out um for comments, there was a lot of feedback and community rallied and said, This tree is important for us. It's a it's a landmark, it's a historical marker, and so the um had to go back to the design table. So the freeway was redesigned to protect the tree, and within that the tree was able to have a park and to be recognized as a space as well. So in 1985, um old apple tree park opened as well.
SpeakerOkay. Yeah, so it's it's really is a staple here in Vancouver. That's uh that's quite a difference.
Speaker 2It might be worth pointing out, too, that um net what is now State Route 14 was the old Evergreen Highway. And that was, you know, didn't have the flyway or anything, but went right past the apple tree. So people knew about the tree and visited the tree at around the centennial of the tree in 1925-26. There was a this increased interest in the tree because um car tourism was on the rise and people were actually coming down to Vancouver to see the tree, which they could get to on the highway. So there's a lot of history there.
SpeakerI'm guessing um because now it is recognized as a historical um uh uh tree in in the city, that any future um developments would have to recognize that. And you know, I I'm not sure what else would be built around that area, but but it would have to be recognized and and built around it.
Speaker 3Absolutely. So as the uh Columbur the bridge project is I'm dating myself as the bridge project is coming up, high-5 bridge project, we have been in communication with that team as well. Okay. Um, because that area will be um impacted, but the tree will not be.
SpeakerAnd I I probably would be remiss if I didn't mention because this is uh an audio-only recording, but but Jessica is wearing uh uh an apple tree t-shirt. Uh I I I heart uh the old apple tree, which is uh very appropriate. So I just had to uh coveting it.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerHad to throw that in there. Um, and that's gonna lead us right into uh the old apple tree festival. Tell us about that and and when did that get started?
Speaker 3Uh the first year of the old apple tree festival was when the park opened in 1985. So we have been celebrating.
SpeakerA little while. And I haven't been to one yet. So maybe this year I should make it.
Speaker 3Especially as we celebrate years of the old apple tree. This is it.
SpeakerI'll be there.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's a great festival. It's an annual festival held on the first Saturday of October each year. Okay. Um just for the day, 11 to 3 p.m. Uh it's really family-friendly, um, fun festival, uh, children's activities, family activities. We have live music, apple cider pressing, um, tours of the uh adjacent historical uh parks historical property.
Speaker 2Um talks about the old apple tree and chance to talk to um urban forestry and the people who help urban forestry take care of the tree, uh Bartlett, right? Um and friends of trees will be there with their giant walking, talking oak tree, probably the Vancouver Bee Project. So yeah, we have lots of partners who come. It's a really fun event.
SpeakerAnd a and a token part of the tree, perhaps?
Speaker 3So yes. Uh the Urban Forestry Commissioners give away cuttings of the old apple tree. So this is a clone of the old apple tree. If you want to try your hand at growing out your very own apple tree, come and get one. Um I will say that uh it can be a challenge to grow it out, but there has been some success.
SpeakerA little extra work and patience, perhaps. Uh and I'm what so you say clones, so we're not gonna worry about them hacking away at the tree just to give samples out. That's not gonna be happening. No, no, no. Um Okay, very good. How has the old apple tree been cared for over the years?
Speaker 3Yeah, there have been partnerships with the city, with National Park Service, um, and uh local tree care providers um that have really come together over the years to care for the tree in collaboration. Um, it has been uh really great support um in caring for the tree. Lauren mentioned Bartlett Tree Care has been donating services for decades now uh and and then just coming together, especially as a tree was uh declining in twenty twenty ten, twenty fifteen, um, and then as we um identified a root sucker to become the new tree.
SpeakerYeah. Would you would you say it's pretty much down to old school now, taking care of it, and they kind of know what to expect and different seasons of the year, what what to do, and make sure it just keeps prospering over the years?
Speaker 3Yeah, as with any tree, um just understanding uh what the normal is for it and if there's anything that's out of out of the normal will address that, but having its uh routine maintenance and checking it out.
SpeakerWith the a tree you're talking about 200 years old or thereabouts uh and that kind of care, uh out of curiosity, how do you keep it from, say, getting rot or or any other thing that might uh you know, invasive species or whatever, um, keep it from, you know, attacking it?
Speaker 3So we have um with National Park Service um have uh agreement or kind of agreed that we're caring for this tree as if it were 200, 150, 100 years ago in this natural environment. So we're not pruning it aggressively as we would with a traditional fruit tree right now, if if a fruit tree in your backyard say you're pruning it for height, you're pruning it for light, you're pruning it for airflow, and to be able to reach the fruit. We are letting it grow and um we are limbing it up a bit as we can, um, somewhat mimicking as if there were deer activity, which there would have been historically around this tree. So it would have been naturally limbed up by the deer eating what it could reach. Um and then just pruning it for structure and health as needed. Yeah.
Speaker 2A 200-year-old apple tree is not a normal thing. Um apple tree, I think fruit trees have like 30, 50 years, maybe. So one of the things that I find really interesting about this tree is that the reason we have it at all is that it was forgotten about. So it was planted in 1826, it grew. Um, there's there's some uh material in the historical records about apples being harvested and seedlings being sent to other places from this tree. Sure. And then, you know, in 1846, the U.S. um British boundary is decided at what is now, you know, the 49th parallel. The British, part of the reason Vancouver's there at all is the British really wanted the the boundary between the U.S. and British territory to be the Columbia River. And so they put Fort Vancouver on the north side, hoping that would be enough to sort of like, no, really, it's Britain on this side. Um and so when Fort when the when the treaty of 1846 went into effect, the Hudson's Bay Company was given permission to stay and continue trading, which it did for about another 14 years. And finally in 1860, they withdrew completely, and um the U.S. Army had moved in by then. But the tree is in an area, it's not in the historical orchard. It's down by the river, and it's in an area that would have been part of the workers' village for Fort Vancouver, and also in the U.S. Army. So the people who took care of the tree and um made sure that it was okay were just regular workers from the village. It wasn't the officers or the high command or anything like that. It was the gardeners and the laborers who were making sure it was okay. And so when the U.S. Army came in, um, and then of course attention turned to the Civil War and other activities, the tree was sort of forgotten. And it was in 1911 that a state senator who um became the state director of agriculture called up the county horticulturalist and said, Hey, I think we need to do something about this tree. It's in bad shape. And so the county horticulturalist went down and found it was he it was rotting. He saw it off a limb that was very high on the tree and counted the rings and found that it was 70 years old or there were 70 rings in that high limb. So that's when they thought, oh, I think this might be from the Hudson's Bay Company.
SpeakerWe've got some history here.
Speaker 2Right. Um, and then you know, so so the 1911 is kind of when it starts being focused on again. Um, but you know, for good 90 years, it's just sort of hanging out there doing its thing. Yeah. It's had all kinds of weird stuff done to it. There was rotten side, they poured cement in in the 1950, they've painted horrible chemicals on it. I mean, not at the end of the year. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's kind of amazing. So it's cool that it's still there.
SpeakerSo um a little detour from the festival. Um, the last podcast episode, we talked about the uh climate action framework and uh the importance of tree canopy. Can you tell us about urban from an urban forestry perspective, why the canopy is so important to our community?
Speaker 3Yeah, especially in our urban areas. Uh so um trees provide ecosystem services and benefits, not only for us, but for the people that live here. Um they're uh cleaning our water, cleaning our air, providing shade on these much needed areas on these hot summer days.
SpeakerYeah, parks.
Speaker 3Yeah, exactly. Um yes, and just that access to nature uh benefits human health. And so it's very important to have tree canopy, but an equitable tree canopy. We know Vancouver has a 21% tree canopy citywide. Uh we have a goal of a 28% tree canopy by 2047, which is very feasible. Um, working with partners in retaining trees and working with codes in retaining trees, and then planting about 2,000 trees a year throughout the community.
SpeakerOkay, that's a fair amount, I would say. Um uh one more question about the old apple tree. Is there a I perhaps heard something about a truck axle sticking out of the tree trunk? You're gonna have to tell us a little bit about it.
Speaker 3Yeah, uh, you know, our Boer cultural knowledge has come a long way since the mid-1900s. Uh I'm sure we still have a long way to go. But uh unique situation. Yes, the tree, um, as Lauren had mentioned, had started to get some attention and uh and some stewardship and care. And by that time, the trunk was already hollow. Um, and uh while the tree was still thriving, the trunk was hollow. And so um the tree care, the horticulturist at the time said, Let's stick something in here to reinforce it. So apparently what they had and what they found was a Ford truck axle. Um so I don't know how they got it so solidly in the ground. That's fantastic. It's impressive, but um And you can still see it. It's still there. I can't wait to see this. Right next to the uh existing sure, you'll see this weird truck axle sticking out of it.
Speaker 2Sticking out of the tree trunk. Yeah, and you could see some old pieces of the old bark from the uh from the original trunk that is sort of scattered around there.
SpeakerI love that. Yeah, that has got to be unique. Well, um that's about all the time we have for today. I want to thank you both for joining me. If you want more information, check out the website at cityofvancouver.us/old-apple-tree-festival. And help build our tree canopy by planting a tree.
